Skip to main content

bad deal
TIME's Jay Newton Small is telling liberals they should shut up about the debt-ceiling deal and be happy with the scraps that could have been worse in it. She says that there are five things we should all be cheering over.

The first is just incomprehensible:

The 2012 budget: At one point in the negotiations, the 2012 budget was to be slashed by $36 billion. The final number of cuts: just $7 billion. And just to ensure we don’t have another bruising government shutdown fight over cuts in September, the deal deems and passes the 2012 budget. Yes, that’s right, the old Gephardt Rule or Slaughter Solution, is back. What’s deem and pass? It’s a legislative trick that essentially means that Congress will consider the budget passed without ever actually having to vote on it.

Maybe we should be thankful that we don't have to go through another budget fight in which we see Democrats fold on all of the progressive principles we're supposed to hold sacred, but it's hard to see how "deem and pass" is a victory for liberals, much less the nation. Better would be an actual, transparent fight. Which Congress apparently doesn't do any more.

She has a better argument on this one:

The trigger: This is counterintuitive, but the trigger is actually pretty good for Democrats. For all that MoveOn thinks that it would force benefit cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, it actually wouldn't trigger benefit cuts to any entitlements. The only cuts it would force would be a 2% or more haircut for Medicare providers. And House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, along with most Democrats, has never opposed provider cuts. Not only that, most progressives actually want the Pentagon cuts. So if the committee deadlocks and the trigger is pulled, Democrats won’t be miserable.

That's, of course, assuming that the Republicans actually accept this deal and proceed as if it were in effect. There's nothing to stop them from introducing separate defense spending to reverse those automatic cuts. Think they won't pull the "support the troops" card to force the Senate and White House to go along with it? Me neither. Of course, that's also assuming the Catfood Commission II doesn't act, and with the mood they're in now, good luck protecting the social insurance programs. On this, I think Economic Policy Institute president Lawrence Mishel's analysis is more on point:

House Speaker Boehner has already suggested that the Republican delegation will be unwilling to support tax increases or revenue-raising tax reform. If so, this would simply continue the one-sided approach to deficit reduction, and would place Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits at great risk. This is all the more true since domestic spending will already have been substantially reduced as part of the initial cuts. Consequently, this new process is likely to lead to a very unbalanced fiscal policy approach.

That holds true for the triggers and for her next point, the Catfood Commission II, which she says we need to stop "carping" about. She says revenues will be increased. She apparently hasn't been paying attention thus far.

Her fourth point is that the cuts that are happening immediately aren't as bad as they could be. Which is indeed a silver lining if you have to have cuts, and ignore the fact that we have high long-term unemployment and a stalled recovery. Somewhat tied into this is her fifth point, that we avoid default and lift the debt ceiling without having to have the fight again before 2013. Except, as David Dayen points out:

The deal sets discretionary spending caps to achieve deficit reduction. Those are ceilings; they’re not floors. When we get to the end of the fiscal year on September 30, House Republicans are going to want to go below the cap. They will have another hostage-taking event on the FY2012 budget. I don’t see why they won’t take it.

We're not avoiding a hostage-taking situation by once again giving into the terrorists. It'll only bring them back to the well. But, ultimately, the larger loss is to the long-term economy and to the larger argument for government. As dday says, this shifts the playing field "away from a sober, factual telling of our economic problems and toward a fantasyland scenario, where deficits are the big problem the economy faces and business confidence will bring it back." It shifts the argument away from the idea that the government can and does do good things for the nation.

None of that should be celebrated by liberals. "Not as bad as it could have been" isn't the measure by which to judge this deal.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:47 PM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  I read her piece, hoping to be cheered up (7+ / 0-)

    but it didn't work for me.

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:49:19 PM PDT

  •  Liberals are all about the happiness of others. (13+ / 0-)

    This plan makes Republicans and their wealthy/corporate paymasters very, very happy.  Surely that counts for something!

    I'll Rochambeau you for it.

    by Rich in PA on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:49:32 PM PDT

  •  What exactly does a cut to medicare providers (22+ / 0-)

    that doesn't hurt medicare beneficiaries mean?  The government is going to pay less?  Wouldn't that result in fewer hospitals and doctors to accept medicare?  I'm confused here.

    I'm sorry, but your reality simply doesn't fit my economic model.

    by Reframing the Debate on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:53:15 PM PDT

  •  Now, this would mean that the budget coming (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sebastianguy99

    out of Conrad's committee is the one that gets "deemed and passed", right?

    And last I heard, Conrad's budget wasn't horrible.  AND it had a LOT of loophole closings for the rich on it.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:53:15 PM PDT

    •  You're cheerleading for Conrad? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias

      "I am very pleased the Budget Committee has now passed my budget plan - a plan that significantly cuts spending and deficits and begins to put the nation back on a sound fiscal course. It cuts spending as a share of the economy by 11 percent. It cuts the deficit as a share of the economy by 70 percent. It will bring the deficit down to 3 percent of GDP by 2015, a level economists believe will stabilize the federal debt relative to GDP. And in dollar terms, it cuts the deficit by $671 billion more than President Obama's budget." Kent Conrad, April 22, 2011.

      How quickly the Pacifist becomes the Warrior when it's "our side" doing the killing.

      by edg on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:20:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wow. She didn't even speak of Obama's... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Major Tom, TomP

    ...invoking the 14th Amendment.  I hope there's a Part II coming.  For now that leaves a hole the size of...oh...well a really big hole in the article.

    It could have been so easy.

    I didn't care for math, but when I first understood the concept of finding the slope of a curve at a point, I wanted to grab the first girl I saw and kiss her with wild abandon, just like in that WW II photo.

    by dov12348 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 12:53:32 PM PDT

  •  Only 7 billion cut for 2012 isnt bad, imo (4+ / 0-)

    especially since everyone is screaming about it cutting so much from a weak economy.

    I wouldnt call anything about this a victory, but I think that's at least one good thing.

    If a government shutdown is also prevented next month, that is a good thing.

  •  from my view of this (4+ / 0-)

    the Republicans had three major goals from this hostage taking:

    1) Default, causing a economic downturn
    2) Denying the president a "victory" (of any sort)
    3) "Entitlement reform" (i.e. significant cuts)

    They really went 0-3 on that scorecard, and that's good enough for me.  

    But as I've been repeatedly told here recently, my lifelong Democratic Party membership has apparently been incorrect.  

    •  check, check and um....check! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sebastianguy99

      "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan - 1980

      by livjack on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:07:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So we won? (2+ / 0-)

      Thats reassuring.

      The executioner sneered as the young queen ascended the stairs to the guillotine; in the old days, he thought, at least there was some buildup, a little time on the rack or some disemboweling, but nowadays everyone wants instant gratification. - Rossi

      by A Runner on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:09:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We certainly didn't get what we wanted either (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99

        but I would say it isn't as bad as all the people running around with their hair on fire think it is.  

        •  I wanted the safety net protected and it was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bawbie

          Low-income programs as well were spared. That's a win to me given that the other side already voted to end these programs as we know them.

          "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

          by sebastianguy99 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:31:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Did you see what happens when the commision fails? (3+ / 0-)

          The majority of the non-defense cuts will be to education, health, environment, employment...etc.

          I'm not so sure I would call that "not bad".

      •  It's a compromise (0+ / 0-)

        No one really wins a compromise.

        However if you want to look at the worst case and best case scenarios I do think Democrats should feel good they protected both Medicare and Social Security from being fundamentally reshaped. They should feel good that so many defense cuts are on the table because short of increasing revenue defense cuts are the next best thing.

    •  Good spin. But it's still a lousy "bargain" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GustavMahler

      At least you are fair enough to mention the other side of that so-called almost Grand Bargain.

      This is a lousy deal, it's true. Default is worse. Hokey magic coins (forgive me, supporters; I'm just unconvinced so far) and invoking the constitutionally hazardous 14th amendment clause under emergency conditions would almost certainly not stave off credit downgrading and higher interest rates for US debt. And the proposal to buy - or is it, to auction off - all the US government property ... is that a GOP privatization proposal?

      Lousy deal, true, but the alternatives now - and it is now, folks - are lousier. And swearing off voting for Democrats in 2012 is lousiest.

      Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

      by TRPChicago on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:11:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nah. We lived through Bush II remember? (0+ / 0-)

        This is worse.  

        I'm willing to take whatever the Rethugs and Tea Baggers can throw out at us so long as it means I get my party back from these reverse Robin Hoods.

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:14:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  default was never a possibility. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Marjmar, Diebold Hacker, aliasalias

        Neither party wanted it.  Both parties would do whatever it took to prevent it.

        The Teabag nutters certainly wanted it---they don't want any government at all, after all--but alas for them they don't have the votes to do diddley about.  There are enough Dems and establishment Repugs to pass a debt increase (just as they have dozens of times over the past three decades), no matter how loudly the nutters scream and stamp their feet.

        There was no "deal" or "negotiating" necessary.  If the Dems had just intro'd a bill to increase the debt limit, period, and told the Repugs to take it or leave it, there would have been a lot of howling, a lot of arm-waving, a lot of crying and gnashing of teeth, but in the end the Repugs would have done what they needed to do, what they have always done before--they would have passed it.

        The big scary "default" boogie-man we're all peeing our pants over, never existed. It simply would not have happened.

        And even now, if the "deal" doesn't pass by some miracle, the Dems and Repugs will agree on a clean bill to raise the debt limit, by midnight tonight. Count on it.

        •  I don't think the House would vote a clean bill (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bawbie

          ... and I'd wager the GOP Senate would filibuster.

          They'll go into denial, call the August 2 date a self-imposed deadline and wait responsible adults out. As in, "I won't grow up..."

          Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

          by TRPChicago on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:35:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly so. (0+ / 0-)

          This was all a manufactured crisis. Demand a clean bill, sit back and wait. That's all we had to do here.

          We can't even manage to do nothing effectively.

          And that is by design. This administration could have gotten a clean bill, if that was what they had wanted. So, why did they do what they did?

          How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

          by Diebold Hacker on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:44:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The audacity of compromise (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Marjmar, cybersaur

        feh

    •  And what was Obama's "goal" last Nov? (0+ / 0-)

      He could have done something about this back then.  This is a monster fail.

      Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

      by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:13:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Indeed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wendy Slammo, bawbie

      Not touching Social Security is big and plus they can still use the Ryan Budget against republicans come 2012...hopefully. Policy wise it mostly sucks but I think the politics of it may actually help Obama. The republicans look like economic terrorists and many Americans have been very turned off by their excessive demands.

      There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.- Mark Twain

      by Logical1 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:16:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  here's to hoping it's so (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Logical1

        I have heard serious disgust regarding the terrorists from the one Republican I know well.

        •  If they continue... (0+ / 0-)

          to purge all their moderates then they will pay in elections to come. There are many mainstream republicans to bemoan how far the party has lurched to the right. My parents are both moderate republicans who voted for McCain but they have been turned off by the level of intransigence by the Republicans. They all HATE Sarah Palin and her ilk as well.

          There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.- Mark Twain

          by Logical1 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:37:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  If you look at it like that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybersaur

      which is pretty much how all the media looks at it, you have an argument.  If you look at it in terms of what would actually be , you know, good for the economy, good for the country, etc....we all lost.

      This land is your land, this land is my land, this land was made for you and me

      by Van Buren on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:19:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the republicans did not want a (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aliasalias

      debt default or an economic downturn, that does not serve the interests of their financial backers (they were playing chicken and the dems flinched, if they had stood their ground, the repugs would have backed off); the president has not won a victory of any sort and I guess that you do not understand that the deficit reduction means that all those entitlements (with the possible exception of social security as that has nothing to do with the deficit, but it did to the debt because the government owed it money; but that will not stop them from babbling more garbage about it) that you are talking about are going to be wiped out in from the austerity measures. The fact that you do not understand this indicates to me that you probably should not be talking about things you have no idea about ...

      "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

      by NY brit expat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:28:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some Republicans certainly wanted a default (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cybersaur

        the Steve King/Michele Bachmann wing of the party did.

        •  please do not be naive, they are controlled (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aliasalias

          both financially and politically by people like the Koch brothers who gain nothing from the collapse of international capitalism; they make their fortune from the system. US government default would have had international implications as the debt is owned in large part by China ... the republicans were playing chicken, the democrats either support the introduction of austerity measures or are completely incompetent. Since I am certain that our President and Dems in congress are neither stupid nor incompetent, I have no choice but to believe that they support the introduction of austerity measures and the destruction of the social welfare state.

          "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

          by NY brit expat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:43:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Some people seem to think that the GOP (7+ / 0-)

    'compromising" on a bunch of crap they didn't REALLY want in the first place is some sort of 'victory'.

    I will say this, its creepy to think that Obama probably sees all the critical comments of him on sites like this  as gratifying 'badges of honor'.

    He can take them to his corporatist buddies as trophies to prove how much he has personally 'sacrificed' for their sake.

  •  As a Medicaid/Medicare provider (9+ / 0-)

    I can tell you right now that our clinic will stop taking clients with Medicaid/Medicare if provider cuts go into effect.

    Medicare reimbursement rates are slightly better than Medicaid, but that's not saying much at all.

    We're a training program for speech-language pathology & audiology students. Medicare already puts a hell of a lot of restrictions on supervision & service provision. Cut the reimbursement rate and it won't be worth our while at all to take these clients. I also should mention that we're one of the few community-based (i.e., non-nursing home) providers who take Medicare/Medicaid to begin with.

    •  OK, but where were you folks on health reform? (0+ / 0-)

      If you supported reforming the health care system in the tumultuous lobbying that went on around it, we all can sympathize with your pain. And I agree that M&M reimbursements need reform; let's work together at doing better in Congress and the administration with that problem.

      I know of health care providers who don't take Medicare patients. I'm confused, though. If you run a training program, don't you rely on patients of all ages, especially older patients, more of whom proportionately to the general public have need for your services? (I'm an audiology patient and I went to a university with first class audiology and speech/language disorders programs. I know whereof I speak.)

      But I'm glad for your business plan if your clinic can get along without any M&M patients and, I gather, without offering any pro bono work. I'm sad, though, for those patients who will have to do without your services and, ultimately, for your students who will not have seen a representative array of patients.

      Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

      by TRPChicago on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:26:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't think providers aren't going to take a hit (0+ / 0-)

      Your threat can be countered. They will just do things such as allowing non MD's to do more. There is also the prospect of importing cheaper providers. At some point, you are going to run out of rich clients to service and risk becoming the villains which would be wrong.

      Why don't you just go ahead and say you believe more costs should shift to beneficiaries? You can't have it both ways.

      I think now would be a good time to start pushing single-payer.

      "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

      by sebastianguy99 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:42:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Very noble (0+ / 0-)

      I would think helping the clients would make it worth your while but hmm... guess not.

  •  Gad. Baby Russert just said we're not ready (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, lostinamerica

    to play "Signed, Sealed & Delivered," on this bill.  Wish I knew for sure who the "...I'm yours"! is when Obama plays this song after a speech.    'Cause it sure ain't the progressives, that's for sure.  That song will never sound the same to me now.

    "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan - 1980

    by livjack on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:05:56 PM PDT

  •   grover, are you running the water for the tub... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Into The Woods, LeighAnn
    •  I think he wants to use an eyedropper to do it. (0+ / 0-)

      Surprised he isn't running for President.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      -Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:15:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  First He's Got to Finish Drowing the Middle Class (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybersaur, lostinamerica

      and the poor and removing the last vestiges of their power over politics and their economy, then he can finally drown our Democracy once and for all and unmask the real form of government they favor.

      We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

      by Into The Woods on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:16:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  msnbc, Time, nbc, etc. are (2+ / 0-)

    the Village.  watching msnbc yesterday was so enlightening as they got Jonathan Alter and Mrs. Greenspan to push the bill.  

    The American people must wise up and rise up!

    by TomP on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:06:48 PM PDT

  •  Debt ceiling lesson learned (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    speak2me, chrismorgan, irmaly

    Maybe Liberals need to learn how to take hostages?

  •  Remember how the ACA was only a start? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica

    Yeah, so do I.  So what's been done lately?  Repealing and chipping away at it one bit at a time...

    •  Republicans own the House (0+ / 0-)

      Of COURSE nothing is going to happen to ACA right now aside from what republicans said they would do - defund it.

      That should make many here very happy.  ACA sucks, so why is anyone here complaining about the law being under attack by the republicans?

      Once they defund it, it'll be gone and you can work for the perfect bill for another 100 years.

      •  My comment had NOTHING to do... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias

        ...with the merits or lack thereof of the ACA.  It was about the promises that were made, if only us Dirty Fucking Hippies shut the fuck up, sucked it up, held our noses and supported it.  And how we were supposed to forget about the promise to work hard for passage of EFCA, and the promise to allow the Bush Tax Cuts (now the Obama Tax Cuts) for Millionaires and Billionaires to expire, the promise to "put on my comfortable shoes" and support labor, the promise to close GITMO, the promise to end the wars, the promise to, oh fuckit, you get the idea.  I love how this president gives up before even trying and how people rush in to defend him with bullshit arguments like "He's not a dictator!" or "It has to happen in the House" and other such rot.  Remember how we made fun of GWB when he said being president was "hard work"?  Good times...

  •  It's another case of BOHICA!!!! (0+ / 0-)

    ...

    ...

    ...

    /sigh

  •  Well said, Joan. (8+ / 0-)

    We have no choice but to fight now.  We comprimised our principles away supporting this President for over two years. No more.

    Defeat the Immoral Bill.

    The American people must wise up and rise up!

    by TomP on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:08:38 PM PDT

    •  Ive read your comments for months on end. (4+ / 0-)

      For the most part, we agree.

      You have been IMO more than patient, more than fair with the current admin. Id like to think I too have been fair and patient.

      If this bill passes, I will have finally gone over the edge. This admin no longer deserves my support.

      We can not defeat this bill. I appreciate the effort, but we no longer have influence as we once did.

      Thanks, TomP

      The executioner sneered as the young queen ascended the stairs to the guillotine; in the old days, he thought, at least there was some buildup, a little time on the rack or some disemboweling, but nowadays everyone wants instant gratification. - Rossi

      by A Runner on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:14:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks A Runner. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maxschell

        Yes, it's too much for me.  I tried but in the end, I can not betray 40 years of my own self.  I cannot support this bill.

        The American people must wise up and rise up!

        by TomP on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:15:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In a calm reasonable way, we must oppose... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, A Runner

          ...this President's re-election.

          We do not have a primary left.  

          We therefore must be willing to endure 4 years of Romney.

          We endured 8 years of Bush II.

          I can do 4 years of Romney.

          Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

          by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:19:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You may be right. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            A Runner, maxschell, cybersaur

            he's selling out on Bush tax cuts for the rich as we speak.

            Read Jed's latest.

            The American people must wise up and rise up!

            by TomP on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:20:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The S+M wing of the Democratic Party. (0+ / 0-)

            Let's show the President we don't think of much what we think of him by electing somebody guaranteed to be worse!

            Anybody who thinks Romney won't cave to the TEA Party hasn't been keeping up with either of the two.

            Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

            by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:22:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Whatever. Obama is not a Democratic leader. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Suzanne 3, cybersaur

              Sorry, that's the way it is.  He has to go.  

              Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

              by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:24:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Somethings will never chaaa-nge. (0+ / 0-)

                Sorry, you had me going on a Bruce Hornsby fit for a second.

                Look, he is one, and getting rid of him would be stupid.  Congress is the problem.  It would remain the problem, even if you got your favorite progressive in place.  

                Get rid of the Republican majority, and all you have is a likely exhausted Republican minority to worry about that will have failed at denying Obama a second term.

                Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

                by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:34:19 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And Obama would be eager to work with them. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  maxschell

                  He's made so many terrible choices which were completely unnecessary, why would anyone think he would be different with larger majorities in Congress?

                  This is who he is. Time to face that fact. If you want more of the same, re-elect him.

                  How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

                  by Diebold Hacker on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:53:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  At the end of the day (2+ / 0-)

    in the midst of their primary season, Republicans either have to raise taxes or cut defense spending.  According to the author, they will instead do an end around and propose cutting social security, medicare, and medicaid-immediately.  Right as their primaries begin.  This bunch of yahoos are going to all run far right campaigns and juggle whether to raise taxes(not happening), cutting defense or yelling about cutting social security.  Harry Reid must have told Obama, you know I got this woman named Sharron Angle to run against me-you should try it.

  •  We aren't being physically kicked in the face (0+ / 0-)

    So that's a 'win' for liberals, at least by the it-could-have-been-worse standard that applies to Obama.

    I agree that it's not particularly courageous to solve a problem on the backs of people who are poor, or people who are powerless, or don't have lobbyists, or don't have clout.

    by teknofyl on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:10:07 PM PDT

  •  We need new "buzz words" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Logical1

    "Economic terrorists" and "hostage taking" hasn't been working for us.  It's changed totally nothing.  

    Hoping we can come up with some new cute little words and phrases.

    Thanks.

    -- **Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong.**

    by r2did2 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:10:11 PM PDT

    •  How about Fascists??? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chrismorgan, cybersaur

      I hope 2012 is about the vision of what America will become. The vision the tea party and republicans offer is widespread pain and misery. Standing for whatever Obama is not, is not much of a stance at all.

      There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.- Mark Twain

      by Logical1 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:19:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, Obama has chosed to inflict misery. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cdembrey, Diebold Hacker

        He is making this choice.  He is not forced into it.  It is his choice, and his policy.

        He was the one who set up the Catfood Commission and appointed Simpson.

        He is the one who did the deal with the Rethugs last November when everyone here and across the land was predicting exactly this scenario.

        He is at fault.  He must go.  The American people cannot take anymore of his neocon/neolib "compromises".

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:22:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would say... (0+ / 0-)

          that he has chosen to somewhat limit the misery. While very disappointed with the direction he has taken the past year he still is much better than anything the Republicans are offering up.

          Thankfully the Catfood Commissions recommendations went nowhere. As much as I hate the debt deal, I think it will be a pyrrhic victory for the GOP.

          There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.- Mark Twain

          by Logical1 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:27:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Errr...they are calling it Catfood Comm II (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cdembrey, cybersaur

            Just like Bush II it will be even crazier.

            Our "constitutional scholar" President is setting up a "Super Congress" so that the Catfood Commissions recommendations can be enshrined into law, and he is using a fake crisis to do it.

            He has to go.

            Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

            by maxschell on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:36:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I hope Pelosi (0+ / 0-)

              sends in some strong vocal liberals then that will fight for liberal ideals. From what i understand, there is a good chance that the trigger gets pulled if there are not any tax increases included in the commission. I welcome further defense cuts.

              I would prefer to run another Dem at this point but it doesn't look like anyone has the stomach for a primary. The 2012 election will be the lesser of two evils. Sigh...

              There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.- Mark Twain

              by Logical1 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:42:44 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Nah, Obama has already co-opted Fascist n.t. (0+ / 0-)
    •  We need to all move into the Independent party and (0+ / 0-)

      grow it's mission expand it's definition

      Some phrases:

      propaganda unveiled

      The power of reality

       seeing through false promises

      Let's do it ourselves

      We will be the new government

  •  Ah, the shit sandwich is not actually made of shit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maxschell, A Runner

    crowd.

    Gotta love 'em.

  •  Obama opposes those defense cuts. (4+ / 0-)

    He opposed the defense cuts in Bowles-Simpson as recently as July 15.

    So, yeah, his 'contributions' are not complete.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:11:45 PM PDT

  •  If You Can't Put A Bullet In A Terrorists Head (3+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Lenny Flank, glynis, Diebold Hacker
    Hidden by:
    Krush

    Your options in dealing with them are limited.

    Until we can take out these terrorists via the next election, we have to deal.

    That's the bottom line.

    We are constrained in what we can do.

    They are suicidal, batshit crazy mutherfuckers who will kill people if they don't get what they want.

    We can't take them out with bullets, so we are forced to deal.

    This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher

    by Beetwasher on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:11:52 PM PDT

    •  HR for even THINKING about shooting political (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MKDAWUSS, Krush, Hedwig

      opponents.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      -Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:15:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  btw, you are wrong. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msdrown, aliasalias

      There was no reason whatsoever to deal with the terrorists, since the terrorists didn't really have any hostage. Neither the Dem Party nor the Repug Party wanted a default, and both would do whatever needed to be done to avoid it.  The Teabag nutters of course DO want a default--they want no government at ll.  But alas for them they don't have the votes to do jackshit. The Dems and the establishment Repugs have more than enough votes between them to pass a clean debt bill, no matter how much the Teabaggers scream about it. So if the Dems had just introd a clean bill, told the Repugs to take it or leave it, then sat back and watched all the fireworks, there is only one way that could have ended---the Repugs will do what they have always done before, and voted for the increase.  They have no choice.

      All we did was bribe the Repugs into voting the way they inevitably would have voted anyway.

      •  YUP, that's exactly what I told Reid's (0+ / 0-)

        staffer this morning.  Everyone should call Mr. Reid and say the same damn thing.

        202-224-3542

        The staffer whined that that bill didn't pass.  Bring it up again and again.  Reid has done that before.  Evetually it wil pass because the only folks to vote NO would be the party of NO and then the entire mess is back in their laps.

      •  Nope, Teabaggers Would Have Defaulted (0+ / 0-)

        They wanted to default, they didn't care and there were enough of them to make it happen.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher

        by Beetwasher on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:49:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Up'd to counter idiotic hr (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Beetwasher

      However, I disagree with the point you raise. We do have an option at any time: let them shoot the hostage. Maybe that would be painful (lost UE benefits, or even a default) but the long term advantage would be the complete destruction of the party responsible for the damage.

      How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

      by Diebold Hacker on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 03:00:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm Glad Most Dems Think Otherwise (0+ / 0-)

        That's a heartless solution.

        This outcome was far better as the deal was not nearly as bad as I figured it would be. Much better than default, by far.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: http://www.myspace.com/beetwasher

        by Beetwasher on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 07:24:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  At least, even with a new train wreck (0+ / 0-)

    on tjhe horizon, default wont be an option , just the federal budget will be held up and the govt will shut down...

  •  FY2013 Budget Crisis will be during the Election. (2+ / 0-)

    You can bank on that.  Don't expect CR's to come lightly, either.

    If you think the FY2012 hostage crisis is something, just wait for FY2013.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    -Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:14:24 PM PDT

  •  I did a quick skim of the bill. (0+ / 0-)

    My sense is that there will be at least one more and possibly two more debt ceiling increases required before the next election. The bill sets a maximum increase of $900 billion yet there are $2 trillion in deficit projections between now and November 2012. Also, if Republicans register a "vote of disapproval" (and I have swamp land to sell you if you believe they won't), the $900 billion is cut to $400 billion, barely enough to get us through 3 or 4 months.

    How quickly the Pacifist becomes the Warrior when it's "our side" doing the killing.

    by edg on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:15:32 PM PDT

    •  The votes have to be two thirds in both houses... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, msmama

      ...to stop the increase.

      Meanwhile, we get a shitload of Republicans on record as once again voting against the financial solvency of the country, twice, in addition to all the other votes they took during this debate.

      Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

      by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:25:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Where exactly are you reading that? (0+ / 0-)

        The Act says it only requires majority vote for passage. If a president vetoes the disapproval, it would take 2/3 vote to override the veto.

        How quickly the Pacifist becomes the Warrior when it's "our side" doing the killing.

        by edg on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:08:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Both houses, at the very least. (0+ / 0-)

          And he gets the money regardless.

          In other words, 2/3rds needed to force it.

          They can't force it.

          They know it.

          So it's symbolic.

          But symbolic of what?

          That's the sticking point.  Now, in their minds, it's supposed to be symbolic of their opposition to the free spending of the Democrats, even though it's about paying for things, rather than creating new spending.

          What we can do is send the message out and convince people of the notion that it's a measure of the contempt they have for the stability and good fortunes of the economy, that it's symbolic of the threat they almost brought down on us before.

          We can let them define it, or we can define it first.

          Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

          by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:30:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Don't trust this administration (0+ / 0-)

    or those who apologize for them.

  •  "Support the Troops" Card might get a lot of play (0+ / 0-)

    in the next few months.

    Looks like there are plans in the works to privatize the military pension system... no more retirement from the Federal Government, just 401(k) in the stock market.

  •  If I were the author... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dalek Sec

    ...I'd be looking for ways to encourage clever exploitation of this, rather than essentially loading every possibility down with a strong helping of severe depression.

    God help me, I think the front page needs to be put on Prozac.  If your first instinct is to predict defeat instead of figuring out how to get what you want, given the current situation, then you aren't fit to lead yourself to the voting booth much less your party to victory.

    Or put another way, just how do you think your pessimism would work out if you were a legislator with that kind of hopelessness.

    Understand now?  You will not see relentless action on the part of the leaders until there is an implacable attitude on the part of the voters.

    Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

    by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:19:41 PM PDT

    •  the leaders are simply not on our side. (0+ / 0-)

      Nothing we say or do will change that.

      We waste our time trying.

      •  So, we do nothing. (0+ / 0-)

        Great idea!

        You know, whether or not they're on our side, they're on their own.  If we start up a movement, if we make it plain that they've got a choice between being replaced or retired, and continuing to draw a paycheck, they'll be looking to please us.

        But really, we have to start consistently beating the Republicans for that to work.

        Your approach sucks at that.  It's poltiical performance art, not a real strategy.

        Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

        by Stephen Daugherty on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 02:37:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  To avoid another hostage taking, I'm afraid we (0+ / 0-)

    need a new President.  As bad as Jimmy Carter may have been with repsect to the Iranians who took the embassy, Obama is worse with the tea partiers.

    •  of course (0+ / 0-)

      if there is a Republican president there won't be any need for hostage taking.

      With any Democratic president, there will be hostage taking.

      But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

      by glynis on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:39:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  until we call their bluff. (0+ / 0-)

        We say, Go ahead, shoot the hostage.

        They double down, and shoot the hostage.

        The public turns on them, and they are crushed.

        How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

        by Diebold Hacker on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 03:10:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  naive (0+ / 0-)

          the hostage was the economy.  The fall out would be far far worse than this bill.  You don't think the Democrats would be blamed?

          But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

          by glynis on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 03:16:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The fallout will always be worse, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias

            but if taking hostages continues to work, they will continue to take hostages. Forever. Is that how you would like our government to "work"?

            In this particular instance, the default would not have happened. Period. Everybody knew this. It might have gone down to the last minute, but in the end the Crazy party would have relented. We should have demanded a clean bill and waited for them to fold.

            And if they drove the car off the cliff and caused a default? It's very clear from many polls that the public would have blamed those responsible, the Crazies.

            How far to the right do the Dems have to move before you stop calling them Dems?

            by Diebold Hacker on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 03:32:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the only way to stop them (0+ / 0-)

              is to vote them out.

              I think it's clearer that they would have forced a default.  It's exactly what they wanted.  Boehner conceded as much.  He was desperately trying to pass something and throw the hot potato back to the Senate so they could blame the Democrats.  And you heard him do exactly that.

              But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

              by glynis on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 04:04:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Krugman said he'd vote against the bill. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Regina in a Sears Kit House

    'If I Were In The House

    I guess I have to be explicit at this point: yes, I would vote no.

    Read it all here  http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/...

  •  UC Berkely economist Brad DeLong doesn't like it (2+ / 0-)

    "The Debt-Ceiling Deal

    A first guess: -0.4% off of fiscal 2012 real GDP growth, with an unemployment rate in November 2012 0.2% above the baseline.

    A hideous waste of opportunity. There is nothing in there to boost employment and capacity utilization. Absolutely nothing."  http://delong.typepad.com/...

  •  Confusing: u say 2012 budget deemed and passed but (2+ / 0-)

    then at end that Thugs can take hostages and refuse to pass the 2012 budget after Sept 30.  Don't see how both can be true.

  •  hmmm (2+ / 0-)

    Just finished watching House Progs conference..
    They do NOT support the currenct bill.

  •  Deficit reduction is always painful. (0+ / 0-)

    But this is just a bruise. I'm surprised at how freaked out people are over it.

    •  Economist Brad DeLong is predicting ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GMFORD

      a drop in GDP and an increase in unemployment because of this bill. This is what makes Deficit Reduction painful.

      Austerity doesn't work!

      •  I agree that austerity doesn't work but (0+ / 0-)

        we can thank W for running up the credit card so high that it must be dealt with before the interest alone eats up the federal budget.  

        Most of the cuts are pushed forward a number of years to give the economy a chance to recover so it's not like they'll be slashing budgets immediately.  Isn't it only $7 billion total to start with?  That's a drop in the bucket.

  •  Nate Silver on what to like. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Regina in a Sears Kit House

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/...

    The bill, in short, is not likely to have profound effect on the recovery in the near-term.

    "I don't want to blame anyone. I just want to know how lowering taxes on the rich creates jobs" --Informed citizen at Congressional town hall

    by Time Waits for no Woman on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:25:04 PM PDT

  •  Debt Ceiling Law Needs to Be Reformed (0+ / 0-)

    The Democrats kill the bill and insist the debt ceiling law be repealed or at least reformed so that it would be illegal to link the debt ceiling to any other legislation. We know that the GOP is going to use the debt ceiling to extend the Bush tax cuts, but the Democrats for ethical reasons will not. Thus, without changes in the debt ceiling law, the GOP will rule forever, and without interruption.

  •  I think the Onion explains very well (2+ / 0-)

    what there is to like in the bill:

    WASHINGTON—Following Sunday’s pathetic excuse for an agreement on raising the government’s borrowing limit, Democrats and Republicans took time to celebrate the meager, ineffective deal, calling it “a testament to the not-so-great things that can happen in Washington when both parties barely come together and agree to not really accomplish anything.” “It took months of phone calls, negotiations, and meetings, but finally we created a pretty sad version of a framework that, we’re happy to say, none of us is really proud of, and that doesn’t really do much to solve our country’s fiscal problems at all,” said House Speaker John Boehner, who gave a cheerful thumbs up and added that the sorry piece of legislation was expected to pass both houses of Congress with a really pitiful display of bipartisan support. “Once again, Democrats and Republicans have demonstrated why our mangled, fractured, barely functioning democracy is the greatest in the world.” At press time, members of both parties were trying to explain to their supporters how the budget agreement could in any possible way be construed as a victory for them.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:25:28 PM PDT

  •  how (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah
    They will have another hostage-taking event on the FY2012 budget.

    When the deal deems and passes the FY2012 budget?

    But we want to get to the same place. We just disagree on the how. --mmacdDE

    by glynis on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:26:33 PM PDT

  •  I'm somewhat confused... (2+ / 0-)

    How is this possible:

       The deal sets discretionary spending caps to achieve deficit reduction. Those are ceilings; they’re not floors. When we get to the end of the fiscal year on September 30, House Republicans are going to want to go below the cap. They will have another hostage-taking event on the FY2012 budget. I don’t see why they won’t take it.

    Given this:

    The 2012 budget: At one point in the negotiations, the 2012 budget was to be slashed by $36 billion. The final number of cuts: just $7 billion. And just to ensure we don’t have another bruising government shutdown fight over cuts in September, the deal deems and passes the 2012 budget. Yes, that’s right, the old Gephardt Rule or Slaughter Solution, is back. What’s deem and pass? It’s a legislative trick that essentially means that Congress will consider the budget passed without ever actually having to vote on it.

    Are they looking at the same plan or am I missing something?

  •  There is a lot in it for the left (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    maxschell, cdembrey

    A lot that:
    silences us further

    weakens the population ( worse health - worse education - worse pay)  that is not wealthy...

    It wins for us the chance to take a rest while the Super Congress does its secret work, no cspan in there I fear

    If means the left can quit being embaressed because there is nothing left to embaress.  We're just a mess on the floor, soon to dry up and blow away in the wind.

    So, time to join the independent party and take what we are, want, and need and make create a new vision.  Independent is a good word because is refers to people who think for themselves, not idealogues.

    It's time to step outside the circle of disease.  The energy out there is largely ready to join a new movement.  The independent party is not scarily "new" but can be clarified and adopted to fit the majority of decent people's needs. Let's go.

  •  Your instigative illustrations... (0+ / 0-)

    Dear Joan McCarter, I do not like your "red devil" (representing the evil Republicans) and the "white angel" (representing the Democrats, including the prez) illustrations. I believe they are inflamatory and divisive. I may disagree with the Republican Americans but I don't like to represent them as "devils." I know of a number of Republicans who are not happy with the current teabagging congress. They think the Republican party has been kidnapped. I think they are correct. Therefore, please stop trying to divide our country with your inflamatory and divisive visuals.

    And the "white angel Democrat" handshaking with the "red devil Republicans"? Is that supposed to be the president? Where was these illustrations prepared in? Koch brothers' think tank offices?

    "Corruptio Optima Pessimi" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:28:26 PM PDT

  •  What's for Liberals to Like? (4+ / 0-)

    Well, I'm a liberal, and therefore a bleeding heart and soft on crime.  It makes me glad to see the two unfortunates who are now mugging me, come to an agreement on how best to take my money.  I would feel bad if they became stressed or - heaven forbid! - at odds because of me!

    No, I will with a smiling face and a content heart accept and cooperate with their plan, god love them!

    Perhaps next time, in appreciation for my liberal outlook, they will even thank me before taking more from me!

    "(I)t is difficult to distinguish politics from entertainment, and dangerous to try." - Antonin Scalia, Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association

    by penguins4peace on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:28:30 PM PDT

  •  Victory is ours! (0+ / 0-)

    proclaimed General Custer..

    An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:30:22 PM PDT

  •  In a nutshell there's the GOP negotiating tactic. (0+ / 0-)

    Over and over again.  They come out of the gate with eat-your-own-poop crazy demands, and then when negotiating genius Obama feels like he's talked them down to a place that is about 6 light years to the Right of Ronald Reagan, he/Dems declare victory because it's "not as bad as it could have been".  GOP do it every time, and Obama falls for it every time.

  •  Signing statement! (0+ / 0-)

    Yeah, it's a fantasy.  It was how I hoped he'd deal with a crappy Republican bill and still get the debt ceiling raised.  But he was too involved in the negotiations.  Now, if it had been liberals and the left wing of the Democratic Party that designed the bill I might still have something.

    Democrats are punished for success; Republicans are rewarded for failure.

    by LeighAnn on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:37:17 PM PDT

  •  You should read the comments on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Regina in a Sears Kit House

    Barrack's facebook post on the deal.

    Not pretty for the President!

    Mr. President, I voted for you and I donated to your campaign. I have supported your efforts at every turn and promoted your wisdom. But my heart has hit the floor with this because I feel like you are allowing the bullies to get away with harming their victims. What works with bullies, for real, is zero tolerance...at least this is what research supports in our schools. This is no different and I feel like the message being sent to our kids is that all they have to do is kick, scream, cover their ears while screaming "I want, I want!" and they will get their way because we can't tolerate hearing their noise. This is ineffective parenting, ineffective intervention, and only promotes them to continue their self-destructive ways and destructive impact on others. PLEASE be the parent here! You say social security and medicare won't be touched, but I am having a difficult time believing this. I, along with most Americans, are the good kids just trying to grow and develop and contribute good things to our community. When you give the bullies everything, the message we get is that you care more about them than us. PLEASE start letting us know you care about us, start ignoring the bullies and setting clear and firm boundaries, and show those bullies they can only participate if they are not going to harm others. Show us you care more about us for promoting good and let the bullies know what is expected in terms of human decency and how to play nice. My heart hurts, please hear me even if I'm not kicking and screaming and harming others...please.
    26 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · 11 peopleLoading...
  •  New Bar.......the Repugs have us now (0+ / 0-)

    There will never be true negotiations again.  Just conquest.
    They have learned how to get it all now.  

    I'm joining the Independent party and going to try to help it grow into a vehicle that has room for the people that are sick of both parties and our generally corrupt bought and paid for government.  Of course the CIA and the PENTAGON  are in this mix somewhere. So it has to be large numbers of people in order to survive.

  •  Stockholm Syndrome (0+ / 0-)

      Wow, lots of emotion today! I'm not gonna rail at anyone, or call them blind, or dupes, or be my usual nasty self, but I gotta tell you...I was in prison for a few years, and I saw people get beaten up & buttraped. But, until the President's press conference, I never saw anyone claim afterwards that "it could have been worse". How, exactly, could it be worse? Those trillions of dollars in cuts are coming out of American mouths and pocketbooks. The savage budget cutting at the state level, & the truly viscious cuts coming from Washington are sure to keep dragging the economy down. This is what they've been designed to do.
      A lot of people are looking for the silver lining in some nebulous future this horrible deal supposedly guarantees. Pentagon cuts? Here's the next Republican attack line when this whole silly business gets trotted out next year (Oh, it takes us thru 2013, you say? Well, then the Republicans will NEVER think to bring it up 5 million times during the campaign...)
    "President Obama will take money from our fighting men & women unless the Democrat Party gets it's Big Gubmint-Wild Spending-SocialistFreedomKilling Pork! Vote for Bachmann!" ...and Obama caves. for "the Troops".

      I'm too disgusted to bother with this right now. I hope you Glass-Half-Full types are right (you haven't been yet, but at some point probability alone might give you a break...)

      And if you think that some magical iron-clad provision in this shit sandwich is gonna protect you, or your grandmother, from the cuts, then you need to share some of what you're smoking.
      But, hey! Now the two parties can get to work on that Jobs bill, right? Hahahahaha....sorry, couldn't resist.

    Speak the truth; Then leave, quickly. -old Russian proverb

    by Kordo on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:40:21 PM PDT

  •  the deal is brilliant (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Regina in a Sears Kit House

    http://swampland.time.com/...

    I think Obama and the Dems outsmarted the Tea Party.  For one, read the article linked above - this deal exposes how clearly it is the lobbyists who control spending and tax policy, not the public.  So let the lobbyists fight it out.  

    And to all of you who now hate Obama because you think he betrayed you, stop yer whining.  You knew the system was broken - and remember how Obama raged against the SCOTUS over Citizens United?  Did you REALLY seriously think that with a system as widely corrupt and broken and a general public as apathetic and ignorant and stupid as ours that one man could just swoop in and wave his magic wand and make it all better??  how naive.  

  •  #1 DOD cut - suspend the 2nd Jet Engine contract (0+ / 0-)

    This plant is in Boener's district! Announce that this contract is being suspended because of the cuts in defense spending demanded by Boener's Republic Controlled House! Let Cincinnati know this is how their Rep brings home the bacon if he/she is the leader of the Republic Party!

  •  The Progressive Caucus get a first look @ the bill (0+ / 0-)

    Live for friendship, live for love, For truth's and harmony's behoof; The state may follow how it can

    by SpamNunn on Mon Aug 01, 2011 at 01:44:41 PM PDT

  •  One possible positive result (0+ / 0-)

    is that if the economy does not boom from this, if the idea that tax cuts and spending cuts is, once again, proven to be harmful for the economy, maybe, just maybe, this time folks will start to see it for what it is.

  •  Gee, ya think maybe "liberals" should get off (0+ / 0-)

    their flabby pink asses and get some "liberals" elected to Congress?

    You know, instead of pissing and moaning ceaselessly about not getting everything they want?

    The TeaBaggers got enough members elected to the House in just one cycle to have influence, and they're only a start-up.

  •  Get rid of Obama. The man is a disaster. Either (0+ / 0-)

    I'm crazy or his poll numbers should decline further.  What is it with liberals and democrats.  Why are they so spineless.  From now on I'm going to call them the invertebrate party.  I need a new party to vote for.

    Obama is a looser.  The White House is out of it's mind.  The bill is total junk.  Very stupid move.  They were totally duped by the Republicans.  They got nothing but cuts which will only hurt the economy and Obama's chance for re-election.

    I hate to say it but Obama is the cause of all his own troubles.
    He came into office with a majority in both houses of Congress.
    But I believe, through his actions, he turned off many independents, demoralized the democratic base and thus allowed many of the Tea Party pricks to be elected during the midterm elections.  Now he has given in to these extortionists
    and they will be back for more and more.  

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site